H.E - you do that - but you may have to come down to size - else you will be hugging the air above my head
I am waiting in anticipation for feed back - and I quote:
Part of Allison Thomson's feed back.
quote
We had a very successful post conference strategy meeting and although I am unable to share the outcomes of that with you right now you can be guaranteed that we have a plan and we will implement that plan with the support of all the NGO's and individuals that participated as speakers. We have successfully formed a very strong coalition and will be working together to not only assist private rhino owners but also to ensure that we continue our mission to make the public more away of the risks and pitfalls of trade. The conference has been the binding together of experts who are totally committed and I am so very grateful to all of them for their support and commitment to this very important issue.
We are busy putting together a "journal" that will make for easy reading outlining the key points of the presentations and as soon as this is available I will share this with you. It will take us about 2 weeks to put this together so please be patient with me.
The full recordings of the presentations will be available online early next week. Thanks to Earth Touch for recording the conference and for allowing us to share their footage.
unquote
Urgh, I still feel so embarrased by self!! Though I am on a mission
preferred to be alone, this conference embedding confidence,...
I really was aware and we all are, about how matters work yet the
stats rattled me..the outcome was unanimous would even pro traders
have been there,.even so we still have a huge problem,....
A little on the conference organized by Allison Thomson of OSCAP
This is purely and simply my impressions as a man in the street.
First Allison Thomson did an amazing job of organization and pulling this conference together and deserves a round of applause. For myself I was sorry not to see more pro-traders in attendance even though they had been invited.
Quote from Allison:
The list is enormous of the people that we invited to attend either as panelists, speakers or those who were given complimentary tickets to attend. It is like voting - if you do not vote you cannot complain about the outcome.
People invited to the conference to either speak or participate in the panel debates/complimentary tickets - to name a few:
Complimentary tickets SANParks:
Dr Mabunda
Col Jooste
Dr Marcus Hofmeyer
Rey Thakuli
Sam Ferreira
Abe Sibiya
Glen Phillips
Hector Magome
Wanda Mkutshulwa
Ezemvelo KZN Wildlife: Dr Mkhize
Other:
Dr Mike Knight
Dr Richard Emslie
Michael 't Sas Rolfe
John Hume
PROA - Pelham Jones
EWT
WWF, South Africa
WWF, Africa
Wilderness Foundation
DEA
Minister Molewa and/or any other representative
Mavuso Msimang
Keith Lockwood
unquote
I am going to try and give (in brief) my understanding of what transpired over the two days – this does not mean I have understood or interpreted things in the same manner as someone else. What may be important to me may not have much impact on another.
Firstly I would like to mention that I believe It would have been more interesting and perhaps more constructive to have heard both point of views and in particular an in depth "counter attack" from the pro trading group, instead of only one side of the coin but unfortunately the pro traders made a decision (for whatever) reason not to attend.
Yes, I have read and have a bit of knowledge of the reasons behind trade in Rhino horn being a way to save the Rhino. A few years ago I was of the very common blaze attitude of flooding the market with stockpiled horns/tusks. Then decided I did not have enough information to make an informed decision and started some fact seeking information of my own. I found many of my own conclusions where firmly re-enforced during the course of the two days.
In my experience most economists can come up with very good reasons for any economically based decision but it is when you start boring down into the heart of various points do you see many of the pitfalls that can be encountered. Some insurmountable – others do have solutions.
My understanding and thoughts of some of the points made during the two days:
No one can know what impact the legalization of trade would have on demand. The projected figures of the probable increase in demand, even without legal trade, were devastating to say the least. If they are only partly correct – even with legal trade and realistic workable controls in place the Rhino would be highly endangered. There are just not enough. Before legalization of trade the numbers of Rhino/elephant would have to be drastically increased before trade could be considered a viable option. An influx of the using nations into South Africa points to a possible increase in local consumption over and above the “exported” consumption.
To be competitive the legal trade would have to have a very good knowledge of the cost of the illegal trade. I think we are all aware that any of the illegal goods available on the market are a lot cheaper that legal items. Why? Has legalization of abalone decreased the poaching? (To use just one example). People are killed on a regular basis for material things such as cars, laptops, cell phones – so why would the lucrative illegal trade i.e. poaching in rhino horn be any different?
Currently the import/export of illegal substances cannot be controlled. Legalization of trade in horn would make it a lot easier to incorporate illegal horn with legal horn. If we did not have corruption, dishonesty, greed and lived in a perfect world perhaps legal trade would be an option. How would law enforcement officers be able to distinguish legal from illegal horn? If we cannot contain the poaching today – how would it be controlled just because it is now legal to trade in horn? Is it practical or viable to have every horn’s DNA at country of destination/origin? And of course will there ever be a fully validated DNA base of every legal Rhino horn in the world?
By legalization of trade we would be preying on the poor and vulnerable in the belief rhino horn can cure cancer and/or other diseases. By agreeing to trade we are agreeing to a myth that it has healing properties. Is this ethical? If you had a loved one dying of a dread disease and you had a low standard of education and/or lack of knowledge – would you give you last cent to a commodity you have been told cures said disease? When we are desperate we take any measures we can to save a loved one.
A need to identify and aim at the top dogs of the poaching syndicates. It is sad that these people are known to law enforcement – yet they remain in a position to carry on profiting from illegal trade – whether it be horn, ivory, children, drugs and any other form of illegal trade. This is where a huge problem lies as they are protected, wealthy, dangerous and willing to pay necessary bribes to corrupt officials. Fear plays a major role in keeping these people as “untouchables”. This brings me to the poachers on the ground. The man on the ground that does the actual killing is dispensable- there are many more to replace him. The call to shoot to kill poaches have huge repercussions on our rangers. Insufficient medical aid in the case of serious injury and no legal cover when they have to face a possible murder charge. Who covers these costs if they are given “a shoot to kill” command?
The poachers that are apprehended are a huge source of information to law enforcement officers. It seems that our law enforcement officers do not have enough training, experience and some – integrity – to get useful information from these poachers. Seizure of legal goods are not being used to the full advantage of getting valuable information from packing crates, bags etc. We cannot remove the element of poverty from the equation. Not all poachers are thriving rich men – an offer of a sum of money – equivalent to more than they have ever seen or could make in their lives is a huge temptation. The “punishment” for the crime in most cases is laughable – even if it ever gets to court resulting in a guilty conviction. Fines seem to be pocket change for these traffickers. A standardization/training of prosecutors, magistrates needs to be implemented so that they are all on the same page when it comes to wildlife crimes. Punishment must be seen as a deterrent rather than a “nuisance factor”
Change of a perception can go a long way to improve the poaching situation. Media coverage and getting the word out to the world is extremely important. We must also remember trying to change a culture, a myth or belief is next to impossible with people who have been indoctrinated and brought up through the generations to a certain belief. In some of the cases “new” beliefs have become entwined into genuine old customs and beliefs which make it even more complicated if you are not fundi on the traditions and beliefs of the people. People that are revered and hero-worshipped or popular political icons are a core instrument in changing countries mindsets – especially for the younger generations. Education cannot be ignored as a powerful tool. Government need to be more involved and committed to the value of wildlife as tourist attractions rather than commodities.
The governments and people in power need to work together and share information. It currently appears that not enough cross communication is being carried out between relevant interested sectors of government. South Africa is also giving out a very confusing message to the rest of the world. By calling for legal trade, other countries are getting mixed messages, and could be sitting on the fence regarding the decision to destroy all rhino horn/ivory. Would I destroy my stockpile if there was a chance I could legally trade sometime in the future? How much of the so called stock piles are in fact from poached Rhino?
South Africa must recognize they are not the only country with a vested interest – there are other countries to be considered when making decisions over Africa’s wildlife. It does look as if the call for legal trade in South Africa will not fly at the next CITES conference and even if it does it will take a lot of red tape and time to get legal trade implemented as well as getting the buy in from destination governments. It does seem that some countries such as China and Vietnam are being far more pro-active than South Africa regarding the prevention of killing of rhino and elephant by using advertising to change people’s mind sets.
What was surprising to me was the lack of knowledge by vets on the anatomical structure of Rhino heads and legs. Amazing strides have been made in a very short time by these esteemed people. This is where the true brutality of what is done to these creatures came to the fore. Emotionally – the videos, pictures and description of what they suffer was even more horrific than just seeing above mentioned as you now hear about nerves, nasal cavities and other details one may not think of or block out in just seeing it on a screen or paper. How the consumers want not only the horn but the point of growth of the horn from the rhino. Parts from wild, live animals are perceived as more potent “muti” than farmed and harvested body parts.
Pro and anti trader’s all want the poaching stopped – we may have different reasons – but it does seem to be a common ground.
I apologize to all the speakers as I have certainly not done justice to their input into the conference. I could have spent many more days but like any conference each speaker had limited time and yet they made compelling arguments based on research and not thumb sucks in the short time they had.
I did walk away with a lot of questions and hopefully when the documents are released from the conference as well as the post conference brain storming there will be a structured well organized campaign to reduce or even better end poaching.
This is not the first time rhino have been under threat and the dedicated work of committed people brought them back from the brink of extinction into a thriving population. I believe far more people are involved and are aware of the huge problem than there were in the past so I do believe a positive outcome is possible. I do not believe there will be an overnight solution and it will take time. It may get worse than it is today before it gets better – but I do not believe we can throw our hands in the air and give up the fight as a hopeless cause. Organization and working together is becoming a priority instead of splinter groups going off at tangents not knowing what the core “fighters” are doing.
Trade in ivory and rhino horn would be opening up Pandora’s box on the animal kingdom – as if they don’t have enough troubles already. We can only work towards creating a world where animals are respected and admired for the diversity and pleasure they offer without hacking into their bodies for no valid reasons except for status, signs of wealth and bogus cures of illness and the love of money.
One I would like to know – perhaps someone on the forum has the answer – Not all owners are in favor of trade so
What percentage of Rhino owners/breeders/farmers/hunters want the trade legalized?
Thank you very much for the comprehensive abstract of the conference, Moggiedog.
Very interesting to read and I do see quite some parallels to what Julian Rademeyer wrote in his Killing for Profit,
e.g.
A need to identify and aim at the top dogs of the poaching syndicates. It is sad that these people are known to law enforcement – yet they remain in a position to carry on profiting from illegal trade – whether it be horn, ivory, children, drugs and any other form of illegal trade. This is where a huge problem lies as they are protected, wealthy, dangerous and willing to pay necessary bribes to corrupt officials.
and
The man on the ground that does the actual killing is dispensable- there are many more to replace him.
God put me on earth to accomplish a certain amount of things. Right now I'm so far behind that I'll never die.
Ok tell you what!!!, since all chinese are your size,
