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Re: Bicycles in our Parks

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:45 am
by Poplap
TheunsH wrote:Some excellent arguments here, especially those directed towards Joep. However, my concerns are that he and/or SANParks will not take note of it here and if they do they won't post a reply here. :O^

Why don't you post those arguments on the SANParks forum as well so that they could take note of your concerns? :-)

Please feel free to post it there, Theuns. Honestly, it is not as if our concerns were ever taken seriously? Was your concern about the promotion of you know what taken seriously, or was it spinned to the effect that you ended up with a warning, plus insinuations that you (or I - how absurd!) unethically amended your posts? Honestly? After all these years, you of all people would do something like that?? When you asked for proof, did it ever came forward?? So did you get answers to your questions, Theuns? Come, out with it! Were you ethically treated? Need I say more? Concerns raised were either 'toxic', 'uncivil' or swept with the 'big easy'. Left for those who sought and elicited conflict to spin it into 'niceties' or if all else failed, turned it into some sort of 'racism' or toxicity or whatever excuse was effective at that stage. How's that for one huge generalisation???

Re: Bicycles in our Parks

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:47 am
by Sprocky
I have just had a chat to Michelle and told her who I was. \O There is some good news as well! \O

The Moz highway will soon be a thing of the past. However, it is not with immediate effect as was announced on the other side, but will be in effect from 1 December. \O

Re: Bicycles in our Parks

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:48 am
by Lisbeth
Did she tell how they are going to control it? RobertT listed all the ways to avoid it ;-)

Re: Bicycles in our Parks

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:48 am
by Sprocky
Lisbeth wrote:Did she tell how they are going to control it? RobertT listed all the ways to avoid it ;-)
She didn't, but she did say that they are working on all possible loop holes, hence implementation only in December and not now. \O

Re: Bicycles in our Parks

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:49 am
by Bushveld Jock
What will happen if you did book in Limpopo NP to go fishing or boating at Massingir dam for a week but not in KNP? In December even camping accommodation is limited and people will not be able to make a booking now.

I think this rule will take some time before it can be enforced. The best will be to limit the number of cars able to border cross per day to the maximum number of reservations for Limpopo NP together with your reservation letter. Even if those crossing into Moz do not taking up their accommodation in Limpopo NP at least the number of vehicles crossing will be reduce. Isn't there a restriction already?

Re: Bicycles in our Parks

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:51 am
by BunnyHugger
The last two times we were in KNP our car was checked for beer at the gate, if bicycles and scateboards etc are not allowed in the park then why aren't they removed from vehicles when they are checked at the gate, to be picked up when they leave. If this is an inconvenience to people who want to leave via another gate then maybe it will deter them from bringing them in the first place.

Herewith a copy of the E-Mail I sent directly to Joep Stevens.

Quote:

"Dear Mr Stevens. I read the following item which was quoted from something you ssuggested on the forum:

Dear All,

I have read some of the inputs and would like to reflect my personal views on this, which are not necessarily those of SANParks. All the years there have been the rules and regulations trying to manage peoples behaviour in the parks and camps - no balls, no bicycles, no playing, no games, etc. I believe we have moved on and need to a more tolerant service provider, especially for children, who are future decision-makers and park visitors. What do we currently offer children? Nothing, at all, just all these rules! I believe we should relook the rules and provide better facilities for people to be able ti cycle, for example a cycling route in or adjacent to camps. I agree there should be control and bicycles should not be on the busier routes in camps where there is a safety risk and neither should kids be allowed to irritate guests in campsites, etc. As with everything there is a responsibility on cyclists (and parents of young cyclists) to behave responsibly. We need dedicated areas for kids to play, to be able to skateboard and be able to cycle. Any views on my suggestion?

Thank you.

JOEP (joep.stevens@sanparks.org)

I for one am an avid cyclist. There are not enough safe places in South Africa for me to particpate in something I am passionate about. Out on the roads, there are drivers who have no regard for the rules of the road and lack respect for other road users, especially cyclists. THose are however, the risks that I take when I cycle. I accept them.

What I cannot accept though, is that your organisation lacks any form of control over the persons who tour the Kruger National Park, especially when it comes to controlling visitor behaviour. Rules are broken with impunity and not much seems to be done about it. When a paying guest want to complain, there are no effective means of doing so. By changing the rules to allow children to utilise bikes and tricycles within rest camps, you are opening up a whole new area for tourists to exploit more areas where they can infringe the rules.

Unforunately, people are people and this is what they do. That is why we are forced to have rules. If the rules are not enforced, or not seen to be enforced, humans will "push the envelope" and the long-term outcome is anarchy. I do believe that this country of our is close to this situation simply because there are so many who do not obey the rules. Worse still is that there is no apparent control over the rules. Speeding for example is a problem within Kruger and it is my opinion that there is s distinct lack of control over this.

I believe that if you change the rules to allow children to cycle in "specifically designated areas" it will not be long before adults start bringing their bike to KNP so they can ride with their children. It will also not be long before the "designated area" rule will be ignored and there will be people riding all over the camps first, and then at some stage, some lunatic will try to ride his bike outside of the camps.

It is further my opinion, that your idea is ludicrous in the extreme. (Definition: Laughable). SANPARKS have a primary responsibility to conserve and protect the animals from humans. This is their only responsibility and in my opinion, they are failing dismally. They allow rule infringements to go unchecked. Previous rules about not allowing any travel after gate closing times, have not been enforced. (I have personally witnessed cars driving around the Crocodile Bridge gate up to 21h30 at night). WIld and loud staff parties are allowed. (Recent New Years Eve party in Satara.)

The rules of SANPARKS are there for the protection of the wildlife and the preservation of OUR NATIONAL heritage. I fully expect SANPARKS to enforce the rules and stop turning Kruger National Park into a three ringed circus.

I have not particulary been active on your forum for some time because I do believe that your form censorship does not encourage me to express these opinions on the forum. I will however post a copy of this comminication on one where I believe it will be allowed without censorship and where it may encourage debate about the subject.

I go to Kruger National park to escape the noise of the big city. I do not go there to cycle. I go there to hear the sounds of nature as they should be, not to experience screaming children on bikes and skateboards. Unfortunately, children fall off these things and often break arms and legs. I believe, that if you allow this to go ahead, it will become necessary to build hospitals in the Kruger to mend the broken bones and until such time as this is done, there will in all probability be a need for after hours emergency travel. Kruger National is a nature reserve. Tourists need to know this and plan their holidays accordingly. If they do not like the rules, then it is preferable to myself and hundreds of thousands of others, that they simply go elsewhere.

Unquote.

Re: Bicycles in our Parks

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:51 am
by Lisbeth
Maybe the hospital thing is a tad exaggerated, but for the rest I agree with you.....and I told Mr. Stevens what I thought about his ideas on the other forum ;-)

Re: Bicycles in our Parks

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:52 am
by Richprins
Anarchy!? Broken Bones!? Cycling outside camps!?

BH! Do you belong to like the "Hell's Angels" of cycling clubs, or what!?? :shock:

Re: Bicycles in our Parks

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:53 am
by BunnyHugger
Richprins wrote:Anarchy!? Broken Bones!? Cycling outside camps!?

BH! Do you belong to like the "Hell's Angels" of cycling clubs, or what!?? :shock:

:-) No RP, I am just a cyclist. I have fallen off my bike more times than I would care to remember. Two years ago I had a serious fall. Ended up with a broken collar bone and six broken ribs. Spent 4 days in ICU for that one. :o0ps: Most of my falls though were as a youngster and no broken bones.

We also did some skateboarding and my boet and many of my friends all ended up with broken arms, broken legs and other minor to major amounts of road rash and other injuries.

Kids, being what kids usually are though, have scant road sense and one day, one of them will be knocked over by some tourist and probably need medical attention. Can you imagine being at a sighting and some ambulance comes past with siren screaming and doing some low flying?

Getting back to the anarchy thing: This is what happens when rules are not adhered to and I am of the opinion, that SA is already there. Maybe to a lesser degree at the moment, but the less the rules are enforced, the more it will occur.

Speed does not kill. It's the sudden stop. One day is one day and a speeding tourist is going to collide with an elephant. What are SANPARKS going to say then in their press release? Will the ellie be sufficiently unharmed and flatten the car (and get shot for his / her troubles) in some kind of chock reaction? What is the likely outcome for the occupants of the car?

Lis, the fact that there are no real medical facilities means they will have to have some sort of treatment center within each of the restcamps. How will they reset broken bones?

And even if there aren't any serious injuries, imagine how many more screaming children will be running around camp looking for mom or dad to attend to scrapes and bruises.

:-)

As I said, I go to KNP to listen to nature. Not to hear screaming children who have fallen off their skate board or bicycle. SANPARKS management should focus on the business of conserving nature, not building hotels, bike tracks, skate board parks and other entertainment centers.

I agree that they need to encourage future generations to visit, but not by sacrificing CONSERVATION.

Re: Bicycles in our Parks

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:55 am
by Flutterby
I can see you feel very strongly about this BH :-) , and I share your sentiments, maybe just not so vehemently! ;-) In my opinion there is no need to provide kids with further entertainment in Kruger....they are visiting one of the top nature reserves in the world, after all!! :roll: If the abundant wildlife is not enough to enthrall them and if parents can't entertain their kids within the rules, then they must take them somewhere else. :O^