Insect or Invertebrates Identification - DONE

[ExFmem]

Those whitish protrusions aren't tubercles? They're in the same place as on the one you posted, and look like little bumps sticking out of the flatter green area. Now I'm confused (what's new?)

[Klipspringer]

Maybe they are, have no clue honestly

[ExFmem]

I thought on the previous page, when you said this: but my thoughts

black thick antennae
cerci sticking out
yellow margin of the wing
females have larger heads than males
decrease of pronotum length in the southern populations

you were pointing out features which Bisanthe DID have based on the German entries in the links. Not what you were saying at all, huh?


Eish

[ExFmem]

*Wing length -(female of B. men... wings don’t extend much further than the abdomen, but can’t really tell much for the male since the wings are closed in the diagram). I’d go with male, as mine do extend quite a bit further. Also, the abdomen in mine doesn’t “seem” broadened as in a female.

*Eye round (what about the pic of B. lagrecai eyes don’t seem round to you?) They look round to me.

*Wings hyaline or opaque- not sure I can draw a conclusive answer, though I lean toward hyaline, but doesn’t that pertain mainly to whether it is male (hyaline) versus female (opaque) as in the Miomantis?

*Prominent cerci - yes, obviously. This is the main reason I don’t think it’s a Miomantis since it’s description says “cerci moderately short…” However, the female spec. of B. pulch… did NOT have prominent cerci either. So, neither genus, something else?

*I believe mine does have tubercles for sure.

So-o-o-o…I don’t think it’s a Miomantis. Bisanthe looks more promising, but the prominent cerci may be a problem with that ID.

Back to the drawing board unless you have stronger convictions about its ID. Shall I remove its entry from the book for now?

[Klipspringer]

So herewith my translation of this

Links

https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/53210525

Medium sized animals.
Head a little wider than long. Frontal shield traverse, with two small rounded tubercles on the disc. The vertex is slightly convex and without "Nebenaugenhöcker" (without bumps next to the eyes).
Pronotum longer than the anterior coxae. Pronotum moderately slim with a flat supracoxal dilation. Metazone finely keeled.
Flight organs of the male rather narrow, hyaline with the exception of the opaque costal field of the elytra.
Flight organs of the female somewhat shortened, but covering the abdomen. Female elytra narrow, parallel-sided, opaque. Alae small and narrow, with yellow transverse bands.
Anterior coxae about as long as the metazone of the pronotum, almost without spines ("fast unbewehrt") in the male, with divergent inner apical lobes.
Anterior femora rather slender, with 4 discoidal spines and 4 outer/exterior spines.
Metatarsus of the hind legs longer than the rest of the segments combined.
Supraanal plate triangular, only slightly transverse.
Cerci simple and round ("drehrund" as opposed to flattened, I assume).

[Klipspringer]

I agree that we have a male and it is important as the male may look somewhat different to the female (head shape, eye shape, etc).
We have only the photos of a female - but I am happy to accept some differences, if it is a male.

The rounded eyes are mentioned only in the french piece, but I consider the German paper the better one (more recent and based on more species).

Cerci - are a mystery to me (may be different in males and females, dunno, as they are involved in mating and egg laying ???)
If my understanding of "drehrund" (round in rotation) is correct: = not flat; they look "drehrund" to me and are fine when compared to the Kaltenbach figures (not visible in the male's dorsal view).


Please try to make sense of the description above, ExFmem.


I have been looking at any other species to consider and can not find anything that would fit better, so in my opinion, we have a Bisanthe, but I can not tell which one.

Re facial tubercles - the longer I look the more I start seeing them as elevations, so I agree that they are there (likely).

What is your verdict?

[ExFmem]

Here’s what I came up with, and I can explain how I arrived at my answer if needed, or diff. from yours. I did use a lot of anatomy charts, but sometimes I miss the boat even then, so feel free to correct my conclusions. Can post close-ups of what I looked at as needed (ex. #11)

Bisanthe
1 Medium sized animals.
Yes
2 Head a little wider than long.
Yes
3 Frontal shield traverse, with two small rounded tubercles on the disc.
Yes
4 The vertex is slightly convex and without "Nebenaugenhöcker" (without bumps next to the eyes).
Yes
5 Pronotum longer than the anterior coxae.
Yes
6 Pronotum moderately slim with a flat supracoxal dilation.
Can’t tell absolutely, but it’s a yes to me
7 Metazone finely keeled.
Yes (some terms like “finely” seem rather subjective w/out having a lot of experience comparing specimens)
8 Flight organs of the male rather narrow, hyaline with the exception of the opaque costal field of the elytra.
Yes-ish, as much as I can tell from the pic
9 Flight organs of the female somewhat shortened, but covering the abdomen.
NA, if ours is male
10Female elytra narrow, parallel-sided, opaque. Alae small and narrow, with yellow transverse bands.
NA, as above
11Anterior coxae about as long as the metazone of the pronotum, almost without spines ("fast unbewehrt") in the male, with divergent inner apical lobes.
Yes
12Anterior femora rather slender, with 4 discoidal spines and 4 outer/exterior spines.
Yes-ish (“rather” = subjective); # of spines-can’t be certain from pics
13Metatarsus of the hind legs longer than the rest of the segments combined.
Not to me, unless I’m misinformed from where the metatarsus begins and ends.
14Supraanal plate triangular, only slightly transverse.
Can’t tell
15Cerci simple and round ("drehrund" as opposed to flattened, I assume).
Sure, not that I have tons of experience w/ cerci.

They all look very good except for #13, so I hope I'm misguided on that one.

[Klipspringer]

The metatarsus is the long segment below the tibia, there is a tibial spine between tibia and tarsus, it is longer than the other tarsal segments, that's a tick!

divergent inner apical lobes. - have no clue what that is
there is a figure in the Kaltenbach paper, but I don't know where to look at the animal to compare it

some examples also here (must be an important character, I assume, as they make much of an affair of it in the keys )
https://zookeys.pensoft.net/article/12542/zoom/fig/16/


Your analysis is just great

[ExFmem]

I will post a pic tomorrow (it's opening day for Baseball in the USA, so I'm VERY busy ) of what I think that is and my close-up of it - SO, if that is also confirmed, we have a deal!!!!

(I compared the anatomy pics showing the divergence and think I can see it in mine as well.)0

[Klipspringer]

https://www.zobodat.at/pdf/ANNA_100B_0019-0059.pdf

page 45 head of B lagrecai - does not have rounded eyes

from this paper

Bisanthe body length:
male 42,0 - 54,0 mm
female: 35,0 - 61,0 mm