BWAHAHAHAHAHA.iNdlovu wrote:If you stopped sprouting vast stocks and small markets we might eventualy get somewhereRichprins wrote:This topic is going in circles, but will not be locked!
Legalising International Trade in Rhino Horn ???
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Penga Ndlovu
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Re: Legalising International Trade in Rhino Horn ???
"Longing for the bush is a luxury many have.
Living in the bush is a luxury that only a few have"
Living in the bush is a luxury that only a few have"
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Richprins
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Re: Legalising International Trade in Rhino Horn ???
The stockpiles amongst private owners may rival .gov's, together!Richprins wrote:Let's see! The syndicates will have a heart attack, or go legal, and we may have a year's breathing space, and money will go into the "right" coffers.
At the moment rhino farmers sometimes see little point in spending money on open targets, even sometimes "poaching" themselves, so may get more motivation to persist long-term, thereby helping the rhino!
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H. erectus
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Re: Rhino Poaching: Arrests, Prosecutions & Sentencing
Hey common folks, dagga makes one float, hence a market
value, to a degree. Also has medicinal value!!!
By comparison to rhino horn, I ask you???, if we were to
satisfy the market with a lousy argument then what's the
difference??? I would rather see plants destroyed rather than
useless innocent rhino!!
I reckon a lot of us, including .gov are barking up the wrong tree!!!
Rhino horn fallacy needs to be curbed at the base thereof.
value, to a degree. Also has medicinal value!!!
By comparison to rhino horn, I ask you???, if we were to
satisfy the market with a lousy argument then what's the
difference??? I would rather see plants destroyed rather than
useless innocent rhino!!
I reckon a lot of us, including .gov are barking up the wrong tree!!!
Rhino horn fallacy needs to be curbed at the base thereof.
Heh,.. H.e
Re: Legalising International Trade in Rhino Horn ???
Legalise rhino horn trade to save rhinos: ANC MP
Sapa | 28 Mai, 2013 13:35
Legalising international trade in rhino horn will stem the slaughter of the species, MPs heard.
The 35-year Cites (Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species) ban on rhino horn has not stopped the poachers, said ANC MP Johnny de Lange, who is also chairman of Parliament's environmental affairs portfolio committee.
Speaking during debate in the National Assembly on the department's R5.4 billion budget, he said government would seek approval for lifting the ban at the 17th Cites conference, set to be held in South Africa in 2016.
"The data suggests that banning of legal, open trade in rhino horn has not resulted in reduced demand for the horn, and has not helped save the rhino from imminent extinction. Escalation in the slaughter of rhino is proof of this.
"Consumers simply do not believe that rhino horn has no medicinal value, no matter how many times we say so. Using increasingly sophisticated means, poaching syndicates have capitalised on the Cites ban to supply what appears to be a resurgent market demand," De Lange said.
More than 360 rhino have been killed by poachers in South Africa since the beginning of this year. Between 2007 and February last year the country lost 1460 rhino to poachers.
South Africa is home to 83 percent of Africa's rhino, with 18,910 white and 2044 black rhino.
The powdered horn, which finds an eager market in many Asian countries, is reportedly worth more, by weight, than gold, selling for as much as US65,000 (about R630,000) a kilogram.
De Lange said it was crucial that the possibility of legalising the trade in rhino horn be investigated.
"It seems abundantly obvious to me... that the rhino horn trade has been banned for 35 years, yet rhinos are still highly threatened and on the brink of extinction. Surely it is time to devise new approaches.
"Legalising rhino horn trade for South Africa is likely to shift the market out of the hands of organised crime into legal channels, which must be good for rhino and other wildlife currently moving through these illicit channels.
"A large and steady supply of horns is also likely to lower and stabilise prices, which also plays against the black market," he said.
To effectively end, or at least contain, rhino poaching to acceptable levels required a "suite" of several carefully thought-out measures and interventions.
In the immediate term, there could be no substitute for heightened security using well-trained, properly-equipped rangers.
Expanding the ranges for the rhino also needed to be investigated.
"Whatever approaches are advocated, it should not detract from the fact that conservation of rhino still depends upon good old-fashioned protection, monitoring, [and] biological management of free-ranging rhino... ," De Lange said.
Cabinet agreed last year that dialogue should be opened on the "desirability and viability" of lifting the Cites ban on trading in rhino horn.
"While well-intentioned, this trade ban on legally selling rhino horn seems not to have saved any species or sub-species of rhino, while succeeding to drive the illegal selling of rhino horn underground."
The ban had created "a lucrative and well-functioning, illegal underground black market, which is a haven for organised crime, diverting vast sums of possible conservation funds into the hands of criminals".
De Lange said that in its call to legalise the trade, government would only argue for a "limited and well-defined trade in rhino horn", within a strongly-regulated market mechanism. The only horns to be traded would come from rhino that died of natural causes, or from present stockpiles, or from possible de-horning.
"No animals should be killed in the process," he said.
The portfolio committee viewed the existence of a lucrative, rapidly-growing black market trade in rhino horn as the "elephant in the room" when it came to discussions on solutions.
"In the committee's view, priority number one must be for the international wildlife conservation community to destroy or at least seriously debilitate this black market, and replace it with a strictly regulated market mechanism," De Lange said.
South Africa is reportedly sitting on a 20-ton stockpile of rhino horn. At US65,000 a kilogram, this would be worth - at the current exchange rate - well over R10 billion.
Sapa | 28 Mai, 2013 13:35
Legalising international trade in rhino horn will stem the slaughter of the species, MPs heard.
The 35-year Cites (Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species) ban on rhino horn has not stopped the poachers, said ANC MP Johnny de Lange, who is also chairman of Parliament's environmental affairs portfolio committee.
Speaking during debate in the National Assembly on the department's R5.4 billion budget, he said government would seek approval for lifting the ban at the 17th Cites conference, set to be held in South Africa in 2016.
"The data suggests that banning of legal, open trade in rhino horn has not resulted in reduced demand for the horn, and has not helped save the rhino from imminent extinction. Escalation in the slaughter of rhino is proof of this.
"Consumers simply do not believe that rhino horn has no medicinal value, no matter how many times we say so. Using increasingly sophisticated means, poaching syndicates have capitalised on the Cites ban to supply what appears to be a resurgent market demand," De Lange said.
More than 360 rhino have been killed by poachers in South Africa since the beginning of this year. Between 2007 and February last year the country lost 1460 rhino to poachers.
South Africa is home to 83 percent of Africa's rhino, with 18,910 white and 2044 black rhino.
The powdered horn, which finds an eager market in many Asian countries, is reportedly worth more, by weight, than gold, selling for as much as US65,000 (about R630,000) a kilogram.
De Lange said it was crucial that the possibility of legalising the trade in rhino horn be investigated.
"It seems abundantly obvious to me... that the rhino horn trade has been banned for 35 years, yet rhinos are still highly threatened and on the brink of extinction. Surely it is time to devise new approaches.
"Legalising rhino horn trade for South Africa is likely to shift the market out of the hands of organised crime into legal channels, which must be good for rhino and other wildlife currently moving through these illicit channels.
"A large and steady supply of horns is also likely to lower and stabilise prices, which also plays against the black market," he said.
To effectively end, or at least contain, rhino poaching to acceptable levels required a "suite" of several carefully thought-out measures and interventions.
In the immediate term, there could be no substitute for heightened security using well-trained, properly-equipped rangers.
Expanding the ranges for the rhino also needed to be investigated.
"Whatever approaches are advocated, it should not detract from the fact that conservation of rhino still depends upon good old-fashioned protection, monitoring, [and] biological management of free-ranging rhino... ," De Lange said.
Cabinet agreed last year that dialogue should be opened on the "desirability and viability" of lifting the Cites ban on trading in rhino horn.
"While well-intentioned, this trade ban on legally selling rhino horn seems not to have saved any species or sub-species of rhino, while succeeding to drive the illegal selling of rhino horn underground."
The ban had created "a lucrative and well-functioning, illegal underground black market, which is a haven for organised crime, diverting vast sums of possible conservation funds into the hands of criminals".
De Lange said that in its call to legalise the trade, government would only argue for a "limited and well-defined trade in rhino horn", within a strongly-regulated market mechanism. The only horns to be traded would come from rhino that died of natural causes, or from present stockpiles, or from possible de-horning.
"No animals should be killed in the process," he said.
The portfolio committee viewed the existence of a lucrative, rapidly-growing black market trade in rhino horn as the "elephant in the room" when it came to discussions on solutions.
"In the committee's view, priority number one must be for the international wildlife conservation community to destroy or at least seriously debilitate this black market, and replace it with a strictly regulated market mechanism," De Lange said.
South Africa is reportedly sitting on a 20-ton stockpile of rhino horn. At US65,000 a kilogram, this would be worth - at the current exchange rate - well over R10 billion.
MPs call for lifting of rhino horn ban
MPs call for lifting of rhino horn ban
2013-05-28 21:18
Cape Town - Legalising international trade in rhino horn will stem the slaughter of the species, MPs heard on Tuesday.
The 35-year Cites (Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species) ban on rhino horn has not stopped the poachers, said ANC MP Johnny de Lange, who is also chair of Parliament's environmental affairs portfolio committee.
Speaking during debate in the National Assembly on the department's R5.4bn budget, he said government would seek approval for lifting the ban at the 17th Cites conference, set to be held in South Africa in 2016.
"The data suggests that banning of legal, open trade in rhino horn has not resulted in reduced demand for the horn, and has not helped save the rhino from imminent extinction. Escalation in the slaughter of rhino is proof of this.
"Consumers simply do not believe that rhino horn has no medicinal value, no matter how many times we say so. Using increasingly sophisticated means, poaching syndicates have capitalised on the Cites ban to supply what appears to be a resurgent market demand," De Lange said.
More than 360 rhino have been killed by poachers in South Africa since the beginning of this year. Between 2007 and February last year the country lost 1460 rhino to poachers.
South Africa is home to 83% of Africa's rhino, with 18 910 white and 2 044 black rhino.
The powdered horn, which finds an eager market in many Asian countries, is reportedly worth more, by weight, than gold, selling for as much as US65 000 a kilogram.
De Lange said it was crucial that the possibility of legalising the trade in rhino horn be investigated.
Stabilise prices
"It seems abundantly obvious to me... that the rhino horn trade has been banned for 35 years, yet rhino are still highly threatened and on the brink of extinction. Surely it is time to devise new approaches.
"Legalising rhino horn trade for South Africa is likely to shift the market out of the hands of organised crime into legal channels, which must be good for rhino and other wildlife currently moving through these illicit channels.
"A large and steady supply of horns is also likely to lower and stabilise prices, which also plays against the black market," he said.
To effectively end, or at least contain, rhino poaching to acceptable levels required a "suite" of several carefully thought-out measures and interventions.
In the immediate term, there could be no substitute for heightened security using well-trained, properly-equipped rangers.
Expanding the ranges for the rhino also needed to be investigated.
"Whatever approaches are advocated, it should not detract from the fact that conservation of rhino still depends upon good old-fashioned protection, monitoring, [and] biological management of free-ranging rhino... ," De Lange said.
Cabinet agreed last year that dialogue should be opened on the "desirability and viability" of lifting the Cites ban on trading in rhino horn.
"While well-intentioned, this trade ban on legally selling rhino horn seems not to have saved any species or sub-species of rhino, while succeeding to drive the illegal selling of rhino horn underground."
Black market
The ban had created "a lucrative and well-functioning, illegal underground black market, which is a haven for organised crime, diverting vast sums of possible conservation funds into the hands of criminals".
De Lange said that in its call to legalise the trade, government would only argue for a "limited and well-defined trade in rhino horn", within a strongly-regulated market mechanism. The only horns to be traded would come from rhino that died of natural causes, or from present stockpiles, or from possible de-horning.
"No animals should be killed in the process," he said.
The portfolio committee viewed the existence of a lucrative, rapidly-growing black market trade in rhino horn as the "elephant in the room" when it came to discussions on solutions.
"In the committee's view, priority number one must be for the international wildlife conservation community to destroy or at least seriously debilitate this black market, and replace it with a strictly regulated market mechanism," De Lange said.
South Africa is reportedly sitting on a 20-ton stockpile of rhino horn. At US65 000/kg, this would be worth - at the current exchange rate - well over R10bn.
- SAPA
Source: http://www.news24.com/Green/News/MPs-ca ... n-20130528
2013-05-28 21:18
Cape Town - Legalising international trade in rhino horn will stem the slaughter of the species, MPs heard on Tuesday.
The 35-year Cites (Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species) ban on rhino horn has not stopped the poachers, said ANC MP Johnny de Lange, who is also chair of Parliament's environmental affairs portfolio committee.
Speaking during debate in the National Assembly on the department's R5.4bn budget, he said government would seek approval for lifting the ban at the 17th Cites conference, set to be held in South Africa in 2016.
"The data suggests that banning of legal, open trade in rhino horn has not resulted in reduced demand for the horn, and has not helped save the rhino from imminent extinction. Escalation in the slaughter of rhino is proof of this.
"Consumers simply do not believe that rhino horn has no medicinal value, no matter how many times we say so. Using increasingly sophisticated means, poaching syndicates have capitalised on the Cites ban to supply what appears to be a resurgent market demand," De Lange said.
More than 360 rhino have been killed by poachers in South Africa since the beginning of this year. Between 2007 and February last year the country lost 1460 rhino to poachers.
South Africa is home to 83% of Africa's rhino, with 18 910 white and 2 044 black rhino.
The powdered horn, which finds an eager market in many Asian countries, is reportedly worth more, by weight, than gold, selling for as much as US65 000 a kilogram.
De Lange said it was crucial that the possibility of legalising the trade in rhino horn be investigated.
Stabilise prices
"It seems abundantly obvious to me... that the rhino horn trade has been banned for 35 years, yet rhino are still highly threatened and on the brink of extinction. Surely it is time to devise new approaches.
"Legalising rhino horn trade for South Africa is likely to shift the market out of the hands of organised crime into legal channels, which must be good for rhino and other wildlife currently moving through these illicit channels.
"A large and steady supply of horns is also likely to lower and stabilise prices, which also plays against the black market," he said.
To effectively end, or at least contain, rhino poaching to acceptable levels required a "suite" of several carefully thought-out measures and interventions.
In the immediate term, there could be no substitute for heightened security using well-trained, properly-equipped rangers.
Expanding the ranges for the rhino also needed to be investigated.
"Whatever approaches are advocated, it should not detract from the fact that conservation of rhino still depends upon good old-fashioned protection, monitoring, [and] biological management of free-ranging rhino... ," De Lange said.
Cabinet agreed last year that dialogue should be opened on the "desirability and viability" of lifting the Cites ban on trading in rhino horn.
"While well-intentioned, this trade ban on legally selling rhino horn seems not to have saved any species or sub-species of rhino, while succeeding to drive the illegal selling of rhino horn underground."
Black market
The ban had created "a lucrative and well-functioning, illegal underground black market, which is a haven for organised crime, diverting vast sums of possible conservation funds into the hands of criminals".
De Lange said that in its call to legalise the trade, government would only argue for a "limited and well-defined trade in rhino horn", within a strongly-regulated market mechanism. The only horns to be traded would come from rhino that died of natural causes, or from present stockpiles, or from possible de-horning.
"No animals should be killed in the process," he said.
The portfolio committee viewed the existence of a lucrative, rapidly-growing black market trade in rhino horn as the "elephant in the room" when it came to discussions on solutions.
"In the committee's view, priority number one must be for the international wildlife conservation community to destroy or at least seriously debilitate this black market, and replace it with a strictly regulated market mechanism," De Lange said.
South Africa is reportedly sitting on a 20-ton stockpile of rhino horn. At US65 000/kg, this would be worth - at the current exchange rate - well over R10bn.
- SAPA
Source: http://www.news24.com/Green/News/MPs-ca ... n-20130528
Legal horn trade ‘no solution’
Legal horn trade ‘no solution’
ENVIRONMENT conservationists do not have much faith in any of the solutions recently proposed to help curb rhino poaching.
29 May 2013 | Elaine Swanepoel and Sapa
The Department of Environmental Affairs yesterday suggested trade in rhino horn should be legalised, as this “will stem the slaughter of the species”.
“Planning towards the hosting of the 17th Cites (Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species) CoP in 2016, engagements will take place to ensure negotiations relating to sustainable utilisation, including a potential proposal for trade in rhino horn,” Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs Edna Molewa said yesterday.
“The 35-year Cites ban on rhino horn has not stopped the poachers,” said ANC MP Johnny de Lange, who is also chairman of Parliament’s environmental affairs portfolio committee. “Data suggests banning of legal, open trade in rhino horn has not resulted in reduced demand for the horn, and has not helped save the rhino from imminent extinction. Escalation in the slaughter of rhino is proof of this.”
He said poaching syndicates have capitalised on the Cites ban to supply what appears to be a resurgent market demand. More than 360 rhino have been killed by poachers in South Africa since the beginning of this year. Between 2007 and February last year the country lost 1 460 rhinos to poachers.
This is one of a series of new developments in the fight against rhino poaching announced during the budget vote speech for the Department of Environmental Affairs. Other developments include discussions between the presidents of South Africa and Mozambique about putting up a fence on the border in the Kruger National Park and also the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with Mozambique.
“The National Environmental Management Law’s First Amendment Bill, aimed at strengthening the regulatory and enforcement provisions to prevent abuse of the hunting permitting system is also at an advanced stage in the Parliamentary process,” Molewa said.
Environmental conservationists were not as hopeful.
“It does not seem to be ethical to support a trade based on the fallacy that rhino horn has any medicinal properties. Internationally, the trade in rhino horn is motivated and driven by crime syndicates and we do not support the practice,” said Linda Joyce, spokesman for the organisation Unite against Poaching.
She said putting up a fence between Mozambique and the Kruger National Park might be a mild deterrent, but a fence alone would not stop motivated poachers from crossing into the KNP. “The focus should rather be on increased training which includes clandestine, human tracking and counter insurgency training.”
John Wesson, of the Wildlife and Environment Society of South Africa, said legalising the horn trade was a temporary solution and that government should rather put pressure on neighbouring countries to take action against corrupt officials and criminals outside SA’s borders.
Joyce admitted that the MOU between SA and Mozambique could be an important tool to restrict the seemingly easy and rapid movement of poached rhino horn to the eastern markets via Mozambique, but Molewa admitted yesterday that this process had been delayed for over a year.
Source: http://www.citizen.co.za/citizen/conten ... o-solution’
ENVIRONMENT conservationists do not have much faith in any of the solutions recently proposed to help curb rhino poaching.
29 May 2013 | Elaine Swanepoel and Sapa
The Department of Environmental Affairs yesterday suggested trade in rhino horn should be legalised, as this “will stem the slaughter of the species”.
“Planning towards the hosting of the 17th Cites (Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species) CoP in 2016, engagements will take place to ensure negotiations relating to sustainable utilisation, including a potential proposal for trade in rhino horn,” Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs Edna Molewa said yesterday.
“The 35-year Cites ban on rhino horn has not stopped the poachers,” said ANC MP Johnny de Lange, who is also chairman of Parliament’s environmental affairs portfolio committee. “Data suggests banning of legal, open trade in rhino horn has not resulted in reduced demand for the horn, and has not helped save the rhino from imminent extinction. Escalation in the slaughter of rhino is proof of this.”
He said poaching syndicates have capitalised on the Cites ban to supply what appears to be a resurgent market demand. More than 360 rhino have been killed by poachers in South Africa since the beginning of this year. Between 2007 and February last year the country lost 1 460 rhinos to poachers.
This is one of a series of new developments in the fight against rhino poaching announced during the budget vote speech for the Department of Environmental Affairs. Other developments include discussions between the presidents of South Africa and Mozambique about putting up a fence on the border in the Kruger National Park and also the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with Mozambique.
“The National Environmental Management Law’s First Amendment Bill, aimed at strengthening the regulatory and enforcement provisions to prevent abuse of the hunting permitting system is also at an advanced stage in the Parliamentary process,” Molewa said.
Environmental conservationists were not as hopeful.
“It does not seem to be ethical to support a trade based on the fallacy that rhino horn has any medicinal properties. Internationally, the trade in rhino horn is motivated and driven by crime syndicates and we do not support the practice,” said Linda Joyce, spokesman for the organisation Unite against Poaching.
She said putting up a fence between Mozambique and the Kruger National Park might be a mild deterrent, but a fence alone would not stop motivated poachers from crossing into the KNP. “The focus should rather be on increased training which includes clandestine, human tracking and counter insurgency training.”
John Wesson, of the Wildlife and Environment Society of South Africa, said legalising the horn trade was a temporary solution and that government should rather put pressure on neighbouring countries to take action against corrupt officials and criminals outside SA’s borders.
Joyce admitted that the MOU between SA and Mozambique could be an important tool to restrict the seemingly easy and rapid movement of poached rhino horn to the eastern markets via Mozambique, but Molewa admitted yesterday that this process had been delayed for over a year.
Source: http://www.citizen.co.za/citizen/conten ... o-solution’
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Richprins
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Re: Legalising International Trade in Rhino Horn ???
South Africa is reportedly sitting on a 20-ton stockpile of rhino horn. At US65,000 a kilogram, this would be worth - at the current exchange rate - well over R10 billion.
I think it's much more!
I think it's much more!
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Sprocky
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Re: Legalising International Trade in Rhino Horn ???
The current R/$ exchange rate is shocking!!! But, are we looking at monetary value or saving Rhino???
The worse the R/$, the more reason the poachers have to ply their trade.
Greater profits. 
20 tons of horn, I doubt it!!
The worse the R/$, the more reason the poachers have to ply their trade.
Greater profits. 20 tons of horn, I doubt it!!
Sometimes it’s not until you don’t see what you want to see, that you truly open your eyes.
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Richprins
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Re: Legalising International Trade in Rhino Horn ???
SP has been collecting horns from natural carcasses since the 1960's...presumably KZN as well. iNdy says they turn to powder, but look at museum specimens? Even if said specimens are handled better, or varnished, the same may apply to SA stocks? We have a massive hoarder of horns here in the Lowveld, and he has farms all over the country! His horns are in prime condition! 
The horns will go to China, anyway...don't know what the exchange rate is there?
The horns will go to China, anyway...don't know what the exchange rate is there?
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Penga Ndlovu
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Re: Legalising International Trade in Rhino Horn ???
$ 65 000.00 per kg is the end user price. Street market value.Richprins wrote:South Africa is reportedly sitting on a 20-ton stockpile of rhino horn. At US65,000 a kilogram, this would be worth - at the current exchange rate - well over R10 billion.
I think it's much more!
The sellers of those horns such as the likes of John Hume will only get a fraction of that.
Also the state will only get a fraction of that amount.
Last edited by Penga Ndlovu on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Longing for the bush is a luxury many have.
Living in the bush is a luxury that only a few have"
Living in the bush is a luxury that only a few have"